The Lawfare Podcast

For today's episode, Lawfare general counsel and senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Edward Fishman, a senior research scholar at the Center for Global Energy Policy within Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs, to discuss his new book: "Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare."They discussed Fishman's own career at the cutting edge of economic statecraft, the evolving toolkit it has come to present U.S. policymakers, the role he thinks it will play in our new era of major power competition, and what it may all mean for the future of the global order.

In the first weeks of the second Trump administration, the Office of Management and Budget abruptly froze trillions of dollars in federal funds—sparking a crisis over impoundment, the executive branch’s assertion of authority to refuse to distribute money appropriated by Congress. Since then, the administration has attempted to withhold further funds disbursed by specific agencies and attempted to dismantle some agencies altogether. Many of these efforts have been blocked by courts. But Congress—the branch of government whose constitutional authority is being usurped—has remained strikingly quiet.To discuss the state of play on impoundment, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic caught up with Eloise Pasachoff, a professor at the Georgetown University Law Center, and Brookings Senior Fellow and Lawfare Senior Editor Molly Reynolds. They talked about how things have developed since January, how the courts and Congress are handling the crisis, and how it might shape congressional negotiations to avoid a government shutdown as soon as March 15. Note: This podcast was recorded on March 4, before the Supreme Court’s March 5 ruling denying the Trump administration’s request to continue a freeze on billions of dollars in foreign aid and sending the case back down to the district court for further litigation.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

This week, Scott was joined by his Lawfare colleagues Molly Reynolds and Quinta Jurecic to work through the week’s big national security news stories, including:“Kyiv Calm and Tarry On.” This past Friday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited the White House for what turned into a disastrous meeting, in which President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance baited him into a heated public argument over Russia’s invasion of his country. In its aftermath, Trump refused to sign the minerals deal Zelensky was there to finalize and has now cut off U.S. assistance to Ukraine—though, at the time of recording, reports were emerging that the minerals deal was now back on track. And while European allies have stepped up their support for Ukraine, Trump’s Republican allies have united in support of him and increasingly called for Zelenskyy’s resignation. What contributed to this explosive about-face in U.S. policy towards Ukraine? And what does it tell us about the Trump administration’s decision-making?“Betting Against the House.” House Majority Leader Mike Johnson scored what many are framing as a big win last week when he—with help from President Trump and ally Elon Musk—was able to unite his fractious caucus’s narrow majority to pass their preferred budget. But there are concerns that aspects of the budget—and the broader agenda Trump is pressuring his party to unite behind—will likely undermine Republicans’ prospects of holding the House in 2026 midterm elections. What is the state of governance in Congress at the moment? And what does it mean for the Trump administration’s aggressive agenda.“Prime Directive.” Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos once again intervened in the newspaper’s opinions section last week, when he indicated that the paper no longer had a responsibility to reflect diverse views and would instead focus on issues of “personal liberties and free markets” that he thought were important for America—a mandate that led opinions editor David Shipley to resign. Is Bezos’s move an effort to dodge the ire of President Trump and his supporters? Or is something else in play? And what impact will it have on the paper’s future as an institution?For object lessons, Quinta endorsed the New York Times Magazine’s lengthy art-imitates-life-imitates-art portrait of the Murdoch family and their odd relationship with the show Succession. Scott shared his discovery of a beautiful (and free!) online graphic novel of one of his favorite books, Lloyd Alexander’s “The Book of Three,” that’s made it much more accessible for his young son, and asked for listeners to recommend other good graphic novel translations of classic fantasy and sci-fi suitable for a younger audience. And Molly celebrated the best season of the year: Girl Scout cookie season!To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.Use promo code RATIONALSECURITY at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan:https://incogni.com/rationalsecurity

For today's episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Joel Braunold, the Managing Director for the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the end of the first phase of the Gaza ceasefire and other recent developments relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict.Together, they discussed how the terms of the ceasefire were changing, recent tensions between Israel and the new Syrian regime over threats to Druze communities, and how the Trump administration is trying to navigate it all. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Tim Fist, Director of Emerging Technology Policy at the Institute for Future Progress, and Arnab Datta, Director of Infrastructure Policy at IFP and Managing Director of Policy Implementation at Employ America, join Kevin Frazier, a Contributing Editor at Lawfare and adjunct professor at Delaware Law, to dive into the weeds of their thorough report on building America’s AI infrastructure. The duo extensively studied the gulf between the stated goals of America’s AI leaders and the practical hurdles to realizing those ambitious aims.Check out the entire report series here: Compute in AmericaTo receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

In a live conversation on February 28, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Roger Parloff and Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Houston Law Center Chris Mirasol about the detention of immigrants at Guantanamo Bay, the dismantling of USAID and the foreign aid freeze, the firing of probationary employees across the federal government, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here.

From February 21, 2024: The advocacy group Protect Democracy last month issued an updated version of its report entitled, “The Authoritarian Playbook.” The new report is called, “The Authoritarian Playbook for 2025: How an authoritarian president will dismantle our democracy and what we can do to protect it.” It is a fascinating compilation of things that Donald Trump has promised to do and how they could likely be expected to affect American democracy if he is elected to a second term in office. To discuss the report, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke with two of its authors: Genevieve Nadeau and Erica Newland, both of Protect Democracy. They talked about what's new in the report, how much of it is speculation and how much of it is simply taking Donald Trump's words seriously, opportunities to mitigate the most dire consequences of which the report warns, and whether this is just baked into the American presidency when occupied by a truly authoritarian personality. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

From March 14, 2022: Russia's war of aggression in Ukraine has undermined some of the fundamental assumptions underlying the security of Europe through much of the post-World War II era. As a result, several European nations have begun to consider dramatic changes in how they approach national security, both individually and collectively.To better understand how the war in Ukraine is reshaping the European security order, Scott R. Anderson sat down with two of his colleagues from the Brookings Institution: Célia Belin, a visiting fellow at Brookings and a former official in the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Constanze Stelzenmüller, the Fritz Stern Chair on Germany and trans-Atlantic Relations in the Center on the United States and Europe.They discussed how the Ukraine conflict is reshaping Europe's approach to security affairs, what this means for institutions like the European Union and NATO, and how these changes are likely to impact the fundamental debate over what it means to be a part of Europe.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

On today’s episode, the Washington Post's West Africa bureau chief Rachel Chason and freelance journalist John Lechner join Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about the current state of the Sahel and the many forces that have converged in the region over the past couple of years.They discussed Chason’s new series out in the Post, “Crossroads of Conflict,” which includes six rich portraits of Sahelian actors, including: an Islamist militant, a militia commander, a Russian mercenary, an American soldier, a coup leader, and a defiant broadcaster. They also talked about Lechner’s forthcoming book, “Death Is Our Business: Russian Mercenaries and the New Era of Private Warfare.”We value your feedback! Help us improve by sharing your thoughts at lawfaremedia.org/survey. Your input ensures that we deliver what matters most to you. Thank you for your support—and, as always, for listening!To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.